Post-Cult Trauma Syndrome
"After exiting a cult, an individual may experience a period of intense and often conflicting emotions. She or he may feel relief to be out of the group, but also may feel grief over the loss of positive elements in the cult, such as friendships, a sense of belonging or the feeling of personal worth generated by the group’s stated ideals or mission. The emotional upheaval of the period is often characterized by 'post-cult trauma syndrome'."*
For symptoms and help, click here.
*Excerpt from: http://www.caic.org.au/leaving/postcult.htm
How to Safely and Effectively Leave Southwestern
- Talk to the organization leaders and be as honest as you can be with them. It may be difficult at first, especially since once students become interns with the company, we tend to get into the mindset that if we decide to leave early, we're quitters and we don't know how to problem solve. That is not true! Just tell your leaders the WHOLE truth, regardless of what their opinions may be.
- If at all possible, deliver your own books. I know this means staying just a bit longer, but it's better to do it yourself than to live in suspense while you are finally home, wondering whether all of your customers have been delivered to or not. Regardless, decide to deliver your books yourself or have someone else do it for you
- Get your paperwork in order! Send your green cards a week before if you are delivering yourself and call all of your customers beforehand to cut down time on those who do have the money and those who don't. Figure out what were your expenses, how many books you need, whether you plan to 'tag' on items when you deliver or not, figure out who you're going to be getting your books from, etc. The paperwork is so important, because even after you leave Southwestern, you'll still need all those documents to fill out your checkout forms at the end of the summer (this can be done online).
- Find someone with a car to help you deliver. Be aware of the fact that you may have to end up paying this person, so just talk this through with them and explicitly tell them that it is going to be a long day! Delivery time, even when it's done earlier than everyone else, is hectic! So, find a car with plenty of space for your books, and make it your goal to, once again, work from 7am to 9pm.
- Do not tell other interns about your plans. This is probably one of the most difficult parts because you grow attached to the people you work with and you realize that they've gone through the same hardships as you have. It'll be easier to keep this to yourself in the longrun, and you can say your good-bye's at your last Sunday meeting.
- Realize that you have done nothing wrong. My friend told me that there is a huge difference between quitting and knowing when something just simply isn't meant for you. If Southwestern isn't for you, then do not feel bad for leaving. You can't force yourself to do something you weren't meant to do, or force yourself to do something you dislike. Keep in mind that not many people are willing to do something like this, and the very fact that you tried sets you apart from a large population of people. And, finally,
- Fill out that checkout form. All of your paperwork should be at hand when doing this, and if you had someone deliver books for you once you left, get ALL of the information from them. This should determine how much money you get paid, because you do get paid ( Woo Hoo!), even if it is a small amount...
- Well, I hope this helps. I REALLY had a difficult time once I came back home, and it took me a couple of months to get over it. But now, I'm glad it's over, and I'm thankful for the experience. I learned so much about myself, and about people in general. But I cannot do the Southwestern experience thing again...
Sold 3 Summers, Regrets it All
I saw the website this morning for the first time and had to respond. The only thing that I ask is that you don't use my information in my email for the website or detailed parts of this email (names, schools, states, locations, etc.)
I would first like to applaud you for creating the website. It's an excellent forum for alumni of the Southwestern Co.
I sold books for three summers. My team finished in the top ten in the company all three summers that I sold. When I got recruited I was strongly encouraged by my parents not to do this job. Promises were made to me by managers that if I tried this "experience" then great things were ahead for me. I can honestly say that the "experience" helped because I do have an awesome job that I started right out of college. However everybody that I work with got to this point without the "experience". The "experience" also nearly destroyed me. Southwestern made me believe that they were the only way to success.
My first summer I sold in a middle-eastern area. I struggled for the first 8 weeks and was ready to quit. I was ridiculed by my own student manager, other experienced student managers, and even first years salespeople. The experience was miserable. At a Sunday meeting a "B" manager named Matthew talked to me and gave me the first bit of encouragement all summer. I finished the summer with a strong 4 weeks and got a decent paycheck. As soon as I got back to Nashville I felt like I had conquered the world. My Executive Manager Josh Smith told me I had to come back for a second summer because one summer doesn't differentiate you to employers. So I signed up.
Second Summer "The beginning of Reality": When I got back to campus, classes started the next day. I was so exhausted I don't even remember how I survived that semester. Within a month I was getting emails and phone calls from managers about recruiting for the next summer. I was naive. My first thought was, “let's do this.” I had managers already disappointed because I hadn’t met their recruitment expectations and said that if I really wanted to be something I would start working harder. I should have quit right there. It was definitely a blow to my confidence. I decided not to recruit, to focus on school and the campus job that I had, and to practice my presentations for the next summer. Big Mistake. Apparently when you don't recruit they don't help you either. By the time the second summer rolled around I was told that I would be going to the mid-west to sell. The Tuesday of Sales School I got switched to Christopher Brown's organization. (Christopher was one of the top salesman). I got into the organization and it was total chaos. Everybody Christopher recruited the year before had a leadership position. If he didn't recruit you he didn't care about you (didn't make any money on you). They sent me to my sales location. The 3 rookies that I was given to live with were the cast-offs that nobody wanted. One guy was urged to go home during sales school because we knew he wouldn't make it. He quit after 4 days. The other guy's attitude was so bad during training, sales school, and in the field he only sold 400 units. Christopher refused to let me send him home. The third guy I really felt bad for. He got recruited, met with his manager once, and then she quit for another job after 3 weeks. I can't blame her. I probably would have done the same if I had the opportunity. He ended up lasting about 10 weeks. I got zero help from the organization and other managers. They wouldn't take responsibility for their rookies, and that was probably the most ridicule that I have ever received. I felt embarrassed. I had rookies from other organizations saying nasty things to me. I remember one sales meeting they asked for pony stories. I told them that my story saw me get in a car wreck and having to walk house to house. My territory only had 14,000 people in it. I was walking 15-20 minutes in between houses trying to sell. I sold 65 units to a lady and her family. They had to post date checks to pay for the books. I was told that wasn't really a pony story because 65 units wasn't a big enough sale. Christopher gave the pony award to his friend that sold when he was sick. He had 3 customers that totaled 70 units. He worked half the day and had his car with him. Sounds to me like he quit on the day (Southwestern Pun). I felt so small after that. Finally that summer ended. I got back to Nashville and got the worst ass chewing from my Executive Manager Josh Smith. That was a tough day that I will never think about again.
Summer Three: In the words of John McInroe "You can't be serious!" I got back to my home state and received the nicest gesture that has ever been made to me. It was my dad smiling and happy to see me. The first smile I had seen in about 5 months. Nobody laughing at me, nobody talking down to me, nobody disappointed in my work. I swore to myself that I would not go back. Don had gotten promoted to an Executive Manager. He told me that now I would be working with him in his own organizations. He was persistent at recruiting me back. Finally at a convention I agreed to come back. I shouldn't have gone to that convention! The last summer I went to the Southeast. I was doing really well. I told people I came back to prove my worth. I was on pace to sell over 6,000 units, however two events happened that changed the way that I looked at things. 1. At a Sunday sales boarder war every manager acted like they were my friend. Even individuals who had said some pretty obscene things to me. If someone made fun of me, they would harp "You’re not allowed to talk trash about him, he hit Presidents Club". They didn't like me as a person, for my personality, charisma, attitude.....they were only around me because I was selling. 2. I also worked pretty poor areas in the counties. Lots of trailers, unemployed people, disability checks, and to be quit frank: PEOPLE THAT HAD NO BUSINESS SPENDING WHAT LITTLE MONEY THEY HAD. I remember walking up to a house that was in bad shape. The husband was a painter. He was at work. GREEN LIGHT 1. The daughter was in 10th grade. GREEN LIGHT 2. I prospected for money. They had cash. JACKPOT!!! The mom was injured and unemployed. They had just received some tax refund money. A whopping $140! That was literally all they had. The dad was struggling to find work as a painter. I did everything that I was trained to do. I convinced the daughter that she needed the books, and I convinced the Mom to pay for them. After all, $140 dollars is a half payment on a set of 5. I told the mom she was responsible for coming up with the other half by the end of summer. I solidified the sale and the mom and daughter had a huge ray of hope when I left. I got about a half mile down the dirt before I started to feel sick. I started to feel bad for what I had done. Why were they any different than anybody else I had sold to? I realized that I wasn't helping them, just like how I really hadn't helped anybody. A salesman helps people find a solution to a need. I created a need and found them a solution out of selfishness. I had hustled them. I stopped the car and I threw up in the middle of that dirt road. I drove back to that house, gave them the cash back, and gave them volumes 1 and 2 of the set. The only thing that could ever possibly be used. I felt so guilty for what I had done that summer. It was about 4 o'clock. I drove back to our headquarters and packed up my things in my car. It was the first time I had ever quit before 9:30pm. I came back to the headquarters, spent the night, went to the breakfast spot the next morning. After the rookies left to go to their territories, I told Don (who was in the HQ with me) that I was leaving. I gave him rent money for the rest of the summer (3 weeks) and drove from the Southeast to the Midwest, nonstop. They had other managers do my deliveries. I had sold over 5000 units at that point and had a remittance rate of 91%. In October they contacted me and claimed I owed them $400. I paid it without argument and never talked to them again.
Post Southwestern: I was able to parlay the "experience" into a job as a broker in financial services. I figured out what the good values were and what the bad were too. I also found out that the only SW people that make it big are the ones that don't do well at the company. Kind of ironic.
I tried to read as much as I could about your story Kristen. My heart goes out to you. Nobody should have to experience things like that. Whoever recruited you should be shot! Ok, not shot but they should have something coming to them.
Received:
College Sweetheart Neglected, Suffers Serious Health Problems
Received February 24, 2008
I wish I would have found your website before I left to sell books in the summer of 2007. I agree with everything that you said in your testimonial and more. I puked my breakfast up every morning and lost a total of 10 pounds in two weeks. I only weighed 105 lbs. when I left. I couldn't eat in the morning for the rest of the summer, even once I returned home, without puking. Life was hell. But the true reason I left was because of the way I was treated by my student manager. I was date rapped my sophomore year of high school and I never really have dealt with it. I didn't even tell my parents about it until I graduated high school. Well, I had a flashback after speaking to a dad at the door of one of the houses. For some reason talking to that specific dad made me hyperventilate, have a panic attack, and have mental pictures flash into my mind from the date rape. I locked myself into my car for 5 hours. I called my regional manager, no answer and no call back. I called my student manager and told him what was going on and he told me to just get over it and knock on the next door. I then finally broke down and called my mom despite all the warnings to never call home during the day. Well my mom flipped out about what was happening and that no one was trying to calm me down over the phone (other than her) because I have asthma and she didn't want me passing out from not getting enough oxygen. After three hours and my mom calling the corporate offices and threatening to sue did someone on my "team" call me. All they told me was to read something and focus on something else. That was all they said to me. I was finally able to just drive back to headquarters and pack my stuff to head home after 5 hours had passed. I was so scared at that moment. The worst part of it all was that even two and three weeks after I left and was back home my regional and student manager kept calling me and basically treating me as a failure. I was close with one of the students in my group and he noticed I was gone on the Sunday meeting. He called to make sure I was at least safe, but didn't want to know anything else. My student manager called me the next day and ripped me out and said that just because I failed doesn't mean that I need to talk to the other team members and try to make them fail as well just so I would feel better. I still see my old student manager and he acts as if we are best friends. I really don't know what I should do, but I feel like I should warn all the students I see him with.
No Qualifying Process: Everyone Accepted into Southwestern
I liked the testimonials sections the best. Please add my experience....it was horrible. Are you kidding me?
My personal experience with "Southwestern" was consistent with the stories. Pay for everything...trip to Nashville....hotel stay in Nashville (1 week / 4 people in my room) ...trip to my territory...which happened to be Pensacola, FL. All gas and miles on my car my problem. First day consisted of us going door to door to "find a headquarters." Luckily an old man had pity on me and let me and 2 of my book selling buddies stay there.
1st guy quit his 2nd week....took me 2 weeks after that to quit as well. Not due to my lack of sales ability...but due to my lack of interest to work 85 hours per week to make $500-$1000 US dollars. That’s if you’re good....if you’re not great at sales you’re screwed.....and that’s the problem with Southwestern.....there is NO QUALIFYING PROCESS...everybody is accepted. I have a guy walking around my neighborhood right now SUMMER 2007 Dayton, OH! With POOR sales ability and BAD ENGLISH! POOR BASTARD! WOW! anyway...like I said...everybody is accepted!
THE BIGGEST SCAM OF ALL!!!!!!!!!
When you "sell" somebody books you ARE NOT ACTUALLY DELIVERING BOOKS TO THEM THAT DAY....rather you are asking them for the 1/2 of the MONEY UP FRONT WITH NO BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!. That's right...you are soliciting for money up front in EXCHANGE for the PROMISE that you will bring the books back in 2 months? Are you kidding me?
Here is how it goes....you knock on the door....person answers...assuming you’re a great salesman/salesgal...they let you in the house.....your goal is to get them interested in the books....get them committed to buy the books........oh but wait...YOU DON'T HAVE THE BOOKS!!!!!!!! that's right...you want them to give you the money for the books TODAY!!! In fact...write a check out to you personally for the books TODAY........that they ARE NOT GETTING TODAY!!!!!! In good faith that you will bring the books back at the end of the summer!!!!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Get money up front for a product that YOU ARE NOT delivering TODAY!!!!!!!!!! WHAT A JOKE!!! This is the biggest thing you must look at as somebody possibly volunteering for this program.......you will be going DOOR to DOOR asking people for money up front for a product that THEY DON'T RECEIVE!!!ARE YOU KIDDING ME????
In this day and age there are better ways to make money over your summer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
College Student’s Typical Day on the Bookfield
I have recently gone through the Southwestern Experience and came across this website. (I was doing some research in hopes to find some resources that holds truth behind SW so that my teammates would not feel so bad about quitting.) As I read the testimonials of others, I felt inclined to share my own story. If you would please publish the following paragraphs on your website, I would deeply appreciate it.
I was first recruited for the Southwestern Company when I was first-year in college. Every week after I was recruited, I had to go to these meetings with my student manager. It didn’t matter that I had homework, projects, and exams coming up; I had to go and I had to comply with her schedule, in addition to the weekly homework that she assigns me. The day after the finals, we were to drive our way to Nashville, TN to receive our one-week of training in “Sales School”. This training consisted of many inspirational speeches, lots of memorizing our “sales talk”, brief overview of what we’re selling, and lots of running.
Oh- I nearly forgot to mention all the hidden costs that come with this internship. The first hidden cost is the fact that the company DOES NOT pay anything for you. All costs ranging from staying in hotels to gas money is all you. On Sundays in the bookfield, they hold meetings in conference rooms at hotels, and guess who pays for that? Correct… you. As well as all the “fun” stuff you do on Sunday, your supposed day off. The second hidden costs are the selling materials that they distribute to you on your first day of sales school. It consists of a horrid green colored bag with all your samples and supplies needed to sell books, as well as paperwork and inspiration CDS/reading. However, what I personally dislike about the bags is that they are 40 lbs and I am not allowed to leave it out of my sight; that includes carrying it with me to the bathroom. Personally, I was told that $300 would suffice for the trip to TN and your territorial state, but I spent over $500 for just hotel money, gas money, conference rooms, and food.
Ok, now let’s talk about a typical day on a “bookfield”, or at least, my typical day. It starts at 5:59AM, when the alarm goes off and we are supposed to race to the cold showers. Then, we go through the usual morning routine before we leave for our breakfast spot. We eat, we do our silly executive exercises (which is basically a lot of yelling to get pumped up), and then we leave to our territory. I get dropped off at my territory at around 7:20AM every morning. I start knocking on door approximately that time and end at 9:30PM. A number of things can and has happened in those 14hrs and 10 minutes. I have been yelled at by annoyed homeowners, targeted by dogs as prey, pulled over by policemen, etc. If I’m lucky enough, it’ll t-storm on me and I would work in the rain. Also, one thing I would like to add is that I am a walker. I have no car, which means to get to places of longer distance, I need to bike there. I haven’t ridden one in over 7 years. Obviously, I fell off… in doing so, I skinned both my knees, each injury at least the size of a half-dollar.
One of the days in the first two weeks of selling, you HAVE to follow a student manager. I was fortunate enough to follow one the day after I fell. I was also lucky enough to follow someone who loves to walk. Even though she had a car, we jogged (and occasionally walked) for NINE hours. Now, my knees hurt throughout the duration of this time and I warned the student manager that I’ll lag a little behind due to that pain. Her response to me, “Don’t think about it. Just ignore it” and keep jogging. So, I spent most of that day trying to keep up with her speed while lugging that 40 lb bag with two bad knees. I will tell you… it was nearly infected and now, after one month, it still hurts to be on my knees.
They sell us on the idea that we’ll be able to make big bucks by working with them. In truth, we make next to nothing when you add in all the expenses that we had traveling, paying for hotels, gas, etc. Another thing they said was that as long as you work 75+ hours a week, you will be successful. In truth, most people work way more than that. My schedule was set up so that I worked, on average, 85 hours a week. I repeat, I was a walker and I have very low tolerance for physical activities so I would take 10 minute breaks every goal period. There being 6 goal periods in total, that means I spend 1 hour out of the 14 hrs resting. I was reprimanded for wasting one hour when all I needed was “one ten to fifteen minute break”.
When I had thoughts of quitting, they scheduled for me to follow a student manager again and talk to the sales manager. It is basically a tactic to make the job seem easier (because it always seems easier when someone else is doing it) and to get to you reconsider quitting. Talking to the sales manager was no joy ride because there was a lot of guilt-tripping there. They try to turn it so that you are deceived into thinking they actually care about your success while your support system at home is there to doubt your abilities. Well… needless to say, when I made the final decision to go home, they all gave me a hard time. They all looked down on me and did not bother hiding their disappointment at all. I went through four days of great emotional distress because I could not figure out the simple answer to a simple answer: Do I want to quit or not? It took four days because they were unwilling to let me go without a fight.
Alumni Testifies to Southwestern’s Sketchy Statistics
I am also an alumni and from my experiences, I would say that your experiences are probably more typical than the stories recruiters tell you about those that make “thousands of dollars.” It is interesting how The Southwestern Company “rounds up” to make the numbers look better.
When the company tells you the average first year income is $2,630, what they are not including in that number is the number of students who go home in the middle of the summer. And conveniently, if you look at gross income as a profit measure of the summer you are not taking into account that your summer expenses are probably around $2,0000-3,000 for the summer. So any tax write off you earn for all your expenses becomes a moot point. If you are an average student you will make very little or, like the author of this blog and myself wind up calling your parents to pay for the books that you couldn’t buy with the income you made from the summer.
This also brings up another point. If you work your but off for the summer, and you don’t make enough to pay for your books. The company will still make money off of you even though you have a net loss because your status as an “independent” contractor means that they do not have to share in your losses. They will do whatever is required to collect on the debt you owe them.
